New Orleans Response
I loved some of these points from a conversation on the Hugh Hewitt show friday by Dr.Albert Mohler, Dr. Mark D. Roberts, and John Mark Reynolds they touched on the Sovergnity of God during the New Orleans event. Great stuff. This was found at www.radioblogger.com
Jerret: I had a question for the panel. I heard someone mention the word act of God, and I believe Dr. Mohler mentioned sovereignty. When we talk about God and natural disasters, is it safe to say, or correct to say that God causes these things to happen? Or does he simply allow them to happen?
HH: Well, that's the fifty billion dollar question. Let's go and ask John Mark Reynolds first, since you're the philosopher as well as a theologian.
JMR: Well, it's like this. I'm responsible for what my kids do, because I'm the father of my kids, and I provide supervision for them. But when my kids do something bad, I have a kind of responsibility, but I don't have a direct responsibility. God's a little bit different, because He also sustains the universe. But God is the cause, the first cause of everything. But He isn't the direct cause of evil that occurs in the universe. I'm afraid that we messed up the system. We put grit in the divine watch. And the universe is running badly. So God is not directly to blame, if you want to say that, for the hurricane. He doesn't want people to hurt, and He tried to, and did provide the means to fix the system. And so slowly, like a good surgeon, He's bringing the universe back into order. He's taking the grit out of the machine. And He's doing it with the least possible pain to humanity. But sometimes, it does hurt, because we get in the way of that divine operation.
HH: Rev. Dr. Al Mohler?
AM: Well, yes. You know, that's a fascinating question, isn't it? How do we explain how God is active in this, because we make two claims at the same time? We claim simultaneously that God is good and God is all-powerful. And an event like this causes us to say well, if God was all-powerful, why did not He prevent it? And you know, I agree with what John Mark Reynolds had to say. It's not as if we can just say we know why this happened. But at the same time, we do know that God has not let the universe just spin out on its own. When I said He was sovereign, the caller asked about that, it means that God exercises an active rule over the universe. And so to some extent, we also have to believe that God is doing something in this that will bring out good. Now that's not to say that the hurricane was good. It's certainly not to say that the tragedy was good. That would be a lie. And it would be an obvious untruth. But you know, in the midst of this, much good is happening, and I think we really have to look at that. And we also, Hugh, have to look at the long haul. We have to take a look and understand that only when God makes all things right...we have to believe in the consummation of all things, that God will bring that about. And when God makes all things right, at that point, every tear will be wiped away. And until then, we do live in a world that, at many times, is a veil of tears.
HH: Mark D. Roberts?
MDR: Well, not much to add, except just to reflect on both of those answers, which I think are really right on. That this is one of the places where we really want to avoid over-simplified answers, because they will either compromise God's sovereignty and power, or they'll compromise God's goodness. And as Christians, we can do neither one. So we're caught in a tension, and I think it's important not to make that all go away. And that's why I...what both of those guys have just said is right. And we need to hang onto that.
Human Response or Blame Game
HH: Now, I want to talk to you, before we come back and do a little bit more on aid and long-term...about the response we've seen of finger-pointing and blame-casting. My theory is that a lot of people are just in shock, and that they can't absorb this. And one way that they do this...and I mean, there's a lot of anti-Bush stuff out there. But a lot of this is just grasping for something. And you mentioned Job, Al Mohler. There was a lot of that in Job as well.
AM: Oh, absolutely. It went both ways. Job's wife wanted him to curse God, and Job's friends wanted to curse Job. And in reality...you know, Hugh, we're facing some pretty difficult issues here, but there are a couple of things I would want to warn us against. I hear out there in talk land, and in the community, and even among some Christians, some of them are ready to say I know exactly why this storm hit New Orleans. It was because of A or B or C. You know, that's exactly what God told Job's friends not to speculate about. And at the same time, I hear other people saying look. God's not even involved in this. God couldn't prevent this. And so, let's just curse God. Well, we know that that's not right, either. God is right in the midst of this. He is the soveriegn God, Creator of the universe, and He is the one right now who is holding the world together by the power of His word.
HH: Mark Roberts?
MDR: That's so right. And it's tempting to want to find easy answers when you're confronted with something as difficult as this. And that's been true throughout the centuries. You know, it was common in the time of Jesus for people to basically blame the sick for why they are sick. If a person was sick, that person must have a particularly bad sin. And at one point in the Gospel of John, the ninth chapter, there was a blind man, and Jesus' disciples actually asked Him, so why is this guy blind? Basically, is it his fault, or his parents'? And Jesus' answer was neither. It's neither this man's fault nor his parents. He was born blind so that God's works might be revealed in him. And there's a mystery to that. But it says don't blame the victim. Don't settle for simple answers. God nevertheless will make His will and His way known in this. But there's kind of a mystery to the whole thing, and when folks want real easy answers, they're inevitably going to get the wrong ones.
HH: John Mark Reynolds?
JMR: I couldn't agree more, but I also think we have a problem that's unique to our culture. And that is that people are used to information, and even money, changing hands very quickly. We want to give money to the Red Cross. We use our credit card, it goes through in a matter of seconds. But a disaster like this reminds us that really concrete, steel, food, people, they don't move so quickly. They move in real space and time. And yet, we're used to being able to solve information problems immediately. Well, in some ways, we're facing a crisis that requires 1950's technology: steel, people, concrete. Fixing very complex, very real world structures. And we're going to have to be patient. We're not going to be able to click a button and do it. I have some students leaving the honors program here at Biola at Torrey, to go and be boots on the ground, and try to help. But those students are going to take a day to get there. You just can't move through three dimensional space immediately. And so patience in a crisis like this, when you're hurting, that's a hard thing to find. And the temptation is to blame the grown-ups, or the people in charge. But we have to remember that this isn't the internet.
Jerret: I had a question for the panel. I heard someone mention the word act of God, and I believe Dr. Mohler mentioned sovereignty. When we talk about God and natural disasters, is it safe to say, or correct to say that God causes these things to happen? Or does he simply allow them to happen?
HH: Well, that's the fifty billion dollar question. Let's go and ask John Mark Reynolds first, since you're the philosopher as well as a theologian.
JMR: Well, it's like this. I'm responsible for what my kids do, because I'm the father of my kids, and I provide supervision for them. But when my kids do something bad, I have a kind of responsibility, but I don't have a direct responsibility. God's a little bit different, because He also sustains the universe. But God is the cause, the first cause of everything. But He isn't the direct cause of evil that occurs in the universe. I'm afraid that we messed up the system. We put grit in the divine watch. And the universe is running badly. So God is not directly to blame, if you want to say that, for the hurricane. He doesn't want people to hurt, and He tried to, and did provide the means to fix the system. And so slowly, like a good surgeon, He's bringing the universe back into order. He's taking the grit out of the machine. And He's doing it with the least possible pain to humanity. But sometimes, it does hurt, because we get in the way of that divine operation.
HH: Rev. Dr. Al Mohler?
AM: Well, yes. You know, that's a fascinating question, isn't it? How do we explain how God is active in this, because we make two claims at the same time? We claim simultaneously that God is good and God is all-powerful. And an event like this causes us to say well, if God was all-powerful, why did not He prevent it? And you know, I agree with what John Mark Reynolds had to say. It's not as if we can just say we know why this happened. But at the same time, we do know that God has not let the universe just spin out on its own. When I said He was sovereign, the caller asked about that, it means that God exercises an active rule over the universe. And so to some extent, we also have to believe that God is doing something in this that will bring out good. Now that's not to say that the hurricane was good. It's certainly not to say that the tragedy was good. That would be a lie. And it would be an obvious untruth. But you know, in the midst of this, much good is happening, and I think we really have to look at that. And we also, Hugh, have to look at the long haul. We have to take a look and understand that only when God makes all things right...we have to believe in the consummation of all things, that God will bring that about. And when God makes all things right, at that point, every tear will be wiped away. And until then, we do live in a world that, at many times, is a veil of tears.
HH: Mark D. Roberts?
MDR: Well, not much to add, except just to reflect on both of those answers, which I think are really right on. That this is one of the places where we really want to avoid over-simplified answers, because they will either compromise God's sovereignty and power, or they'll compromise God's goodness. And as Christians, we can do neither one. So we're caught in a tension, and I think it's important not to make that all go away. And that's why I...what both of those guys have just said is right. And we need to hang onto that.
Human Response or Blame Game
HH: Now, I want to talk to you, before we come back and do a little bit more on aid and long-term...about the response we've seen of finger-pointing and blame-casting. My theory is that a lot of people are just in shock, and that they can't absorb this. And one way that they do this...and I mean, there's a lot of anti-Bush stuff out there. But a lot of this is just grasping for something. And you mentioned Job, Al Mohler. There was a lot of that in Job as well.
AM: Oh, absolutely. It went both ways. Job's wife wanted him to curse God, and Job's friends wanted to curse Job. And in reality...you know, Hugh, we're facing some pretty difficult issues here, but there are a couple of things I would want to warn us against. I hear out there in talk land, and in the community, and even among some Christians, some of them are ready to say I know exactly why this storm hit New Orleans. It was because of A or B or C. You know, that's exactly what God told Job's friends not to speculate about. And at the same time, I hear other people saying look. God's not even involved in this. God couldn't prevent this. And so, let's just curse God. Well, we know that that's not right, either. God is right in the midst of this. He is the soveriegn God, Creator of the universe, and He is the one right now who is holding the world together by the power of His word.
HH: Mark Roberts?
MDR: That's so right. And it's tempting to want to find easy answers when you're confronted with something as difficult as this. And that's been true throughout the centuries. You know, it was common in the time of Jesus for people to basically blame the sick for why they are sick. If a person was sick, that person must have a particularly bad sin. And at one point in the Gospel of John, the ninth chapter, there was a blind man, and Jesus' disciples actually asked Him, so why is this guy blind? Basically, is it his fault, or his parents'? And Jesus' answer was neither. It's neither this man's fault nor his parents. He was born blind so that God's works might be revealed in him. And there's a mystery to that. But it says don't blame the victim. Don't settle for simple answers. God nevertheless will make His will and His way known in this. But there's kind of a mystery to the whole thing, and when folks want real easy answers, they're inevitably going to get the wrong ones.
HH: John Mark Reynolds?
JMR: I couldn't agree more, but I also think we have a problem that's unique to our culture. And that is that people are used to information, and even money, changing hands very quickly. We want to give money to the Red Cross. We use our credit card, it goes through in a matter of seconds. But a disaster like this reminds us that really concrete, steel, food, people, they don't move so quickly. They move in real space and time. And yet, we're used to being able to solve information problems immediately. Well, in some ways, we're facing a crisis that requires 1950's technology: steel, people, concrete. Fixing very complex, very real world structures. And we're going to have to be patient. We're not going to be able to click a button and do it. I have some students leaving the honors program here at Biola at Torrey, to go and be boots on the ground, and try to help. But those students are going to take a day to get there. You just can't move through three dimensional space immediately. And so patience in a crisis like this, when you're hurting, that's a hard thing to find. And the temptation is to blame the grown-ups, or the people in charge. But we have to remember that this isn't the internet.
posted by Stew at 5:01 PM
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