What to do now.
I will address this from a couple different points such as Laity, and Pastors.
Should I leave the ELCA due to the closeness of the Sexuality vote, and the Errorist teaching that has crept in?
I would say as Laity this really depends on the individual church. But I would ask a few questions of a Pastor before joining or staying in an ELCA church.
1. Do you believe Salvation is found in Jesus Christ alone (Acts 4:12, John 14:6)
2. How do you interpt John 3:18? If the Pastor starts dodging the texts in the first two questions you know you are in trouble.
3. Describe the Sinful Nature of Man?-If the Pastor doesn't describe this nature as Bondage as found in Romans 8:5-8,
4. Ask What Jesus meant about the Authority of Scripture in John 10:35? If the Pastor starts talking about how we don't follow all parts of scripture, or take them literally( This often means they are ignored all together), then you have a few problems.
5. Ask how they understand I Corinthians 11:27, do they understand how Ted Tappert in his book on the Lord's Supper, talked about how in the Early Church were frequently denied the Lord's Supper for living in impenitent sin or Heterodox confession of faith?
6. Ask how they understand the Lord's Supper? If they talk about it as a communal celebration, not in terms of how Matthew 26:28 describes it as a need for our sinful nature, then be worried.
7. Ask if Baptism produces Salvation? If they say yes, then ask "doesn't Luther say that Baptism is only valid because of Faith, which saves (Romans 1:17)". If they keep arguing then leave?
8. Ask how they understand Matthew 28:19? If the answer is in terms of Social Gospel, or vague than run. If the answer is in line with Romans 6:23 than you are OK.
9. Ask how does the Church's moral teachings contrast with Culture's Moral Teachings? The answer here should be self-explaintory.
It should be pretty obvious that if one answere one of these questions correctly they should be correct on the majority of these questions. If they seem to grab on to Church Growth Models (I.E. Purpose Driven Life, Alpha), I would be somewhat leary.
As far as Seminarians or Pastors go. One must be more careful inquiring about what type of Church they are going to be going to. Although it is acceptable to go and try to make a positive influence at a Church. A lot of the bureaucracy influenced by the ELCA is problematic, but individual congreations can still be influenced.
Is there any chance the ELCA gets more theologically conservative in the coming years?
If people work at it maybe. If people make demands before giving to Seminaries(I.E Seek to find out what is being taught). If People seek to recruit Theologically-Conservative people to Seminary. If Pastors start trying to influence congreations more, and be less afraid of potential consquences. If people start getting agressive in local mission. This is one thing the conservative movement has in that it has an actual defintion of who is lost. So it will be more naturally agressive in this way.
What is the problem with LCMC?
LCMC is great when it comes to matters of theology and structure. As a Seminarian, you face three problems 1. They have more Seminarians although a small number, than avaible calls. 2. The limited number of Churches also makes switching Churches problematic. 3. There is no great need to effective positive theological change within LCMC congreations. These three reasons are why the ELCA is a better option than the LCMC at this time. As Laity if there is a good LCMC Church around that you like by all means attend it.
Should I leave the ELCA due to the closeness of the Sexuality vote, and the Errorist teaching that has crept in?
I would say as Laity this really depends on the individual church. But I would ask a few questions of a Pastor before joining or staying in an ELCA church.
1. Do you believe Salvation is found in Jesus Christ alone (Acts 4:12, John 14:6)
2. How do you interpt John 3:18? If the Pastor starts dodging the texts in the first two questions you know you are in trouble.
3. Describe the Sinful Nature of Man?-If the Pastor doesn't describe this nature as Bondage as found in Romans 8:5-8,
4. Ask What Jesus meant about the Authority of Scripture in John 10:35? If the Pastor starts talking about how we don't follow all parts of scripture, or take them literally( This often means they are ignored all together), then you have a few problems.
5. Ask how they understand I Corinthians 11:27, do they understand how Ted Tappert in his book on the Lord's Supper, talked about how in the Early Church were frequently denied the Lord's Supper for living in impenitent sin or Heterodox confession of faith?
6. Ask how they understand the Lord's Supper? If they talk about it as a communal celebration, not in terms of how Matthew 26:28 describes it as a need for our sinful nature, then be worried.
7. Ask if Baptism produces Salvation? If they say yes, then ask "doesn't Luther say that Baptism is only valid because of Faith, which saves (Romans 1:17)". If they keep arguing then leave?
8. Ask how they understand Matthew 28:19? If the answer is in terms of Social Gospel, or vague than run. If the answer is in line with Romans 6:23 than you are OK.
9. Ask how does the Church's moral teachings contrast with Culture's Moral Teachings? The answer here should be self-explaintory.
It should be pretty obvious that if one answere one of these questions correctly they should be correct on the majority of these questions. If they seem to grab on to Church Growth Models (I.E. Purpose Driven Life, Alpha), I would be somewhat leary.
As far as Seminarians or Pastors go. One must be more careful inquiring about what type of Church they are going to be going to. Although it is acceptable to go and try to make a positive influence at a Church. A lot of the bureaucracy influenced by the ELCA is problematic, but individual congreations can still be influenced.
Is there any chance the ELCA gets more theologically conservative in the coming years?
If people work at it maybe. If people make demands before giving to Seminaries(I.E Seek to find out what is being taught). If People seek to recruit Theologically-Conservative people to Seminary. If Pastors start trying to influence congreations more, and be less afraid of potential consquences. If people start getting agressive in local mission. This is one thing the conservative movement has in that it has an actual defintion of who is lost. So it will be more naturally agressive in this way.
What is the problem with LCMC?
LCMC is great when it comes to matters of theology and structure. As a Seminarian, you face three problems 1. They have more Seminarians although a small number, than avaible calls. 2. The limited number of Churches also makes switching Churches problematic. 3. There is no great need to effective positive theological change within LCMC congreations. These three reasons are why the ELCA is a better option than the LCMC at this time. As Laity if there is a good LCMC Church around that you like by all means attend it.
posted by Stew at 5:26 PM
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